Is your board thinking about a capital campaign? A new building or renovations? Or new programs? Or an endowment campaign?

Capital campaign fundraising is the most cost-effective and remarkable kind of fundraising. Organizations often raise 10 or even 20 times what they've raised before with a very high ROI. But before you head down that alluring path, there are some things you really must know to keep you from failing before you even get started.

Campaign expert, Andrea Kihlstedt, will open your eyes the the power and pitfalls of a capital campaign.

  • You'll learn what you can (and can't) raise money for through a campaign
  • You'll find out how even if you don't have a "fundraising board" a capital campaign might still be right for you.
  • You'll understand whether you need a campaign consultant, and if so, for what.
  • Your worries about a campaign undermining your annual fund will be laid to rest.
  • You'll get a clear picture of how and why capital campaigns work.

CFRE approved for 1.25 creditsSign up for this revealing session by the woman who wrote the book about capital campaigns. Thousands of people worldwide use Andrea's comprehensive manual, Capital Campaigns: Strategies that Work, to guide them through their campaigns.

And now, you'll have a chance to hear her lay out basics about capital campaign fundraising for you.

Additional Materials for Capital Campaigns 101: The Critical Lessons you MUST to know about a capital campaign before you get started!

Download the audio: Capital Campaigns 101 with Andrea Kihlstedt (MP3)

Download the slides: Capital Campaigns 101 with Andrea Kihlstedt (PDF)

The blog post Andrea mentions at the end, the one on what to do if you don't have any major gift donors yet, is: If You Want to Raise Big Money in a Capital Campaign, Do This Now!

Read the transcript for Capital Campaigns 101

Marc: Well, welcome to the next Nonprofit Academy Presents. I'm your host Marc Pitman and I have a repeat faculty member from the academy, Andrea Kihlstedt on the line. Hi, Andrea.

Andrea: Hi Marc. Hi everybody.

Marc: I am so thrilled that everybody else is here, too. I know this is a hot topic because I can see the number of people that are signing in, even though its always going to be available after, in the vaults and in the archives. Just some ground rules as we get started. Remember that if you use the hashtag you see on your screen, NPA Presents, you can ask questions that way over Twitter.

There's also a couple of places in the GoToWebinar control panel. The questions part in the chat part. I'll try to monitor both. If you don't get a response in one, feel free to try the other. And, we want to make this all about getting information that you can actually use. So please don't be shy about using those. You can try emailing me too, I'll try to monitor that as well. And with that, it's my distinct pleasure to introduce our host. Our presenter, actually, Andrea Kihlstedt. Andrea, I don't even know when we got on... how we connected with each other. Do you remember?

Andrea: You know Marc, I'm not sure. Let me think for a minute. I know we were in that group together for a bit.

Marc: Oh, that's right.

Andrea: No, no. I actually remember, Marc. I was working, doing Asking Matters. I created something called Asking Matters and I saw that you had written a book on asking. And, I think I reached out to you about that. I think that's what happened.

Marc: I distinctly remember sitting in my car at Starbucks here in Waterville, Maine. And having this, "Oh my goodness. This woman is so awesome. She totally gets it," moment in the car. I've just, "Yes. And boy, she gets it even better," because I have a chapter on personality profiles and stuff and styles in the book Ask Without Fear. But, then you wrote the book on that. And it was like, "Oh, this is so much better." So everybody that's listening, you have a real treat because I get that experience, almost every time I'm with Andrea. Even when we're doing a tech check last week, it was just one of those, I just learned so much from her, because she's got so much, not only so much experience, but, she just packages as well so it's easy to digest and understand.

One of the things I do want to point out is, you'll see her website and it's for Capital Campaign Magic or CCM, Capital Campaign Masters, as its going through. But, she just finished... she's written a lot of books. She's written a book, really great, very thorough book on capital campaigns. It's in its fourth edition, is that right? Third? Fourth?

Andrea: Just working on the fourth edition.

Marc: Okay. So, there's that. But, the one that also just came out, which is pretty exciting. And, I don't understand why. At my experiences, people don't get workbooks, but this is really cool. It's called, "How to Turn Your Board Members into Effective Fundraisers." There's a video series and she also worked on a workbook of exercises with Andy Robinson. So, if you go to, you can get to see How to Turn Your Board Members into Effective Fundraisers. It's just a ton of exercises. There are, I guess, ten.

Andrea: Fifty-three exercises. The videos, we have ten videos, I think, but 53 exercises.

Marc: What I love about the book is that, it's, I mean, talk about a recipe book. If this is your goal, to get your board more engaged this way, or to get your board doing this better. You have all the different exercises, put to get in kind of as a menu. Or if you have a time frame. If you only have this many minutes, go for these exercises.

Andrea: You know what, Marc. I think, I should do one of these sessions for you, on How to Train your Board. How to be a Trainer With your Board. That's a great topic and I'm really proud of that book. So, I would be happy if you want me to do one of these on that subject.

Marc: You all heard her here first, everyone. I will definitely follow up with you after this call. That's exciting. But, we are here for capital campaign. So, yes, go ahead, take it away, Andrea. Go for it.

Andrea: Okay. Thank you so much, Marc. Thank you for... what a wonderful introduction. And, all of you who are here with us on the line today, I'm really tickled to be here with you. Yes, I kind of look a little grandmotherly in that picture, don't I? Well, because I am, if you want to know the truth. I've been doing this business a long time. I was a capital campaign consultant for about 30 years. I don't know how many campaigns... I worked on, a lot. I'm not consulting anymore for capital campaigns. I'll tell you at the end what I am doing. I sure learned a whole lot about capital campaigns.

When you do something for long enough and you do enough of them, you develop a sort of instinct about them. And a clarity, that, in the beginning it looks so big and so complicated and it feels like there's so many moving parts and you kind of can't make sense of it. I remember that time in my career, when I wanted to hold my head, because it seemed so big and complicated. And then, little by little, I got so that it actually seemed simple. So, I'm going to try hard today to share with you some of the clear simplicity that is hard thought for me, hard one. It took a lot of years before I started feeling like I mastered this stuff. So, I hope its helpful.

If I go too fast or if you have questions or things that just aren't clear to you or don't make sense, I'm happy to answer them on this session. Or if we run out of time, you should feel free to email me. I really am quite accessible and I really love sharing what I've learned. There are some things that aren't so fun about getting old, but there are some things that really are. And, one of them is that you've had a lot of experience and you sort of develop instincts. And, those are fun to share.

So, let me tell you what it is we’re going to do today. I've put this webinar together in what I've called, "My Five Hot Topics. My Five Hot Capital Campaign Topics." So, the first is, Capital Campaign Essentials. What are the core things that make a capital campaign a capital campaign? What do you need to know about? The second is, is your Board the Right Board? And I'll bet most of you on this call have that question. And we'll talk some about that, because its a super important subject.

The third is, Capital Campaign Consultants and Feasibility Studies. Do you need them? Do you need to study? How do you think about capital campaign consultants? Why are they so bloody expensive? And things like that. Fourth, Campaign Materials. I've got a lot to say about that and I hope I can make sense of it for you.

And finally, we'll sort of summarize by going through a little exercise piece, where I ask you, if you and your organization are going to be ready for a capital campaign. Now, I should tell you that this big book that I wrote on capital campaigns, Capital Campaign Strategies that Work, it's called. I wrote it about 20 years ago and I've updated it a bunch. And I am about to update it for the fourth time, that will be, yes, it really will be the last time I update it. And I just should tell you, that when I'm summarizing here in less than an hour for you, is explained in that book in, I think 407 pages or something, utterly ridiculous. So there is a lot more to say. A lot more to know, that I'm going to be able to cover today. But, I hope you come out this with a picture that will anchor you on any capital campaign that you are embarked on.

Marc: Andrea, I've done a lot of capital campaigns. And, I think its 14 or 17 or something. But, I have used your book. There have been times when, it's been either in the car or at the hotel room. My client would have something, I would be furiously going through it, "What does Andrea has to say about this." So, I'm so glad you're going to share it here, too. This is good.

Andrea: I hear that a lot. I'm always tickled when somebody... I happen to talk to somebody and they say, "Oh your book is dog-eared on my desk," right. And, it's really very gratifying because it's a lot of work to do, but [inaudible 00:08:39].

Marc: It sure is.

Andrea: I know it really helps people and it makes me smile. Okay guys. Enough of this chit-chat. Let's go on to Capital Campaign Essentials. I'm going to run through these a little, but just to give you a little picture about the essential elements of campaign. I think about a Capital Campaign as being kind of a spring board. It takes an organization and it springs it forward. You can hear me clapping my hands and springing up. Think about yourself on those shoes with springs in them or on a diving board. A capital campaign is transformational. It literally springs an organization into the next level of function. Because of that, it only happens every once in a while. They're special and occasional.

I mean, from my own beliefs, I think every organization should be thinking about a campaign and getting into one about every ten years because it breathes life and excitement and energy into an organization. It says to an organization, "You can be doing more to carry out your mission." Let's think about what it's going to take to do that. And let's organize a special fundraising campaign to take us there.

In organizations, you are not constantly moving up, growing, developing new things, at the same pace. None of us have the energy for that. None of us are able to do that. But, they tend to move more in a wave. You really make a big jump forward and then you level out for a bit. And then, you make another big jump forward. Many organizations... and I believe that every organization should be starting to think about a campaign. Starting to do some serious planning for moving forward about every ten years.

They, often, from very beginning, when you first start thinking about them until they're finally over, take about five to six years by the time you collect all the pledges. They take a whole chunk of time. So, if you think about a ten-year period, you're actually in a campaign phase for five or six years before you've collected all the money and you've made happen what the campaign was supposed to fund. And then, you have a couple of years to level out and to kind of catch your breath. And then, you should be back on that road again.

All right. Capital campaigns are based on a plan. And, I know that probably sounds utterly ridiculous but, I can't tell you how many people call us and they say, "You know, our board has decided we're going to do a campaign" and they just want... a development director will call and say, "My board says they want a campaign and they just want me to go out and raise much more money." No talk of a campaign plan. No talk about how are you going to raise the money. I mean, it's remarkable to me.

But capital campaigns, with your annual fund, do you have an annual fund plan? But it's something that you're just rejigging each year. It's essentially there, it drives what you do. Because capital campaigns are big and exceptional and occasional, you actually need a whole big planning process to make them happen that you then carry out. And a lot of what happens, the success of a capital campaign, comes by using that planning process to engage people. So, the development of the plan is very important for a capital campaign. Capital campaigns are not primarily about money.

Marc: What?

Andrea: But, let me give you a real life story here. I was brought in to do a short term evaluation for an organization here in New York. I live in the middle of New York City. And they called me in and then said that they had started a campaign, a capital campaign and they were two years down the road. It was a campaign to raise five million dollars and the board had given two million dollars and they didn't know where... they were having trouble raising the rest of the money.

So, I went and I talked to a bunch of people and I said essentially, "What do you want? What are you raising money for?” Expecting them to tell me they were raising money to transform the institution. What they had essentially said is, "You know, we've developed all these programs and we find that our annual fund can't support it so, we want to raise more money so that we can fund bigger annual expenses." Its like, oh, not good, right? What they said is, "We want to do a campaign because we need more money." It essentially doesn't work. It's not exciting.

Marc: So, you're saying, capital campaigns that are just to raise money is not . . .

Andrea: Are you having trouble with the sound? I could hear you muttering, so I don't know if we have a technical problem.

Marc: Yes. I lost hearing you for just a little bit while you were on a good rant.

Andrea: Okay. Too bad.

Marc: You're back.

Andrea: I'm back. Okay. So, capital campaigns have big goals, multiple times the annual fund, bigger than anything you could imagine. And they have clear timelines. They are over and above the annual fundraising. And, let me make a point of this, that you do not want to have a capital campaign and undermine your annual fund. You’re annual operating. And if a donor were ever to say to you, "Gee, I'm going to give to one team, I'm either going to continue my annual fund gift. Or I'm going to give to the capital campaign," your answer must be, "You have to continue your annual fund. We will not cannibalize the annual fund for your campaign." So, they are over and above your annual fundraising. There are lots to talk about on that particular topic, but, we can come back to it later.

There are eight characteristics and I'm going to stop doing lists after a bit. I'm just starting with some lists. So, what are the biggest things that sets apart a capital campaign is volunteer involvement. And because, when you take on a capital campaign, you are really ramping up the effort. You are going to the very same donors who give to your annual fund and you're asking them for much bigger gifts. You have to involve them. You have to engage and involve them. And that's critical to the success of most every capital campaign. So, you can't do a capital campaign by yourself, just by going out and asking more. It simply won't work.

In capital campaigns, we allow people to make pledges, multiyear pledges. The most common pledge is three years. But, some organizations let people go over five years for a large gift. I've heard of ten years. The longer your pledge period, the higher the likelihood that some of the gifts won't get paid. So, we don't want to extend that out too much. But if you let people pledge over a period of years, they will make larger gifts.

I'm sure you know this, but often in capital campaigns, we offer naming opportunities, special plaques for the capital campaign. Sometimes, we do room plaquing . Sometimes we just do a big campaign plaque. It's a special part of a campaign. We put more energy on it and effort into it than we do in our annual fund. A Gift Range Chart, that's number four on my list here. Now, some of you may call it a Donor Pyramid. Marc, what do you call that?

Marc: Gift frame, gift grid, gift range calculator, gift range chart . . .

Andrea: Yes. You have a gift range calculator on your site, I know Marc. And, I will talk about that a little bit. I'm going to knock it down, so be prepared.

Marc: Awesome. Thanks for the heads up.

Andrea: So a gift range chart is one of those charts that shows you how many gifts of what amounts you need to get to your campaign goal, is a critical campaign tool. It really makes a huge amount of difference that you do that and that you do it right. We'll come back to that subject.

Number five, capital campaigns require a major gift mindset. Now, again, you know, these days I'm hearing people who tell me, "Gee, our Board thinks that we can do a crowd source campaign." Right? I mean, first, I think they can do an ice bucket challenge. And then, think they can do a crowd source campaign for their capital campaign and it's simply false. Capital campaigns are major gift enterprises, period. You have raised a little money from the broad base but not very much.

You will spend a lot of time as you develop your capital campaign getting clear about the case for support. And you will use the process of developing a case for support to engage your donors and to get your volunteers really much more involved.

Now, why are gift range charts important? Because, they become a road map for what I think of as top-down, inside-out solicitation. You actually develop that gift range chart and you start working on the gifts at the top of it. Because, half of your campaign is likely to come from ten gifts. So, the gift range chart really becomes a map. Tells you who you need to focus your attention on when in your campaign plan. The campaign plan is based on your gift range chart.

And, finally, a campaign has a very specific structure, which I will show you a picture of, shortly. Now, that's sort of your basics. Basics, a quick run through of your basics. I promise I'm going to get off list. But, let's dive into one more little one.

Everybody wants to know, what can you raise money for in a capital campaign? And, it's a really important question, because there are some things that work to raise money for, and there are some things that don't. I find that the biggest mistake people make when they're planning a capital campaign is that, they don't think broadly enough. Everybody thinks, "Oh we need a new building or renovate the building," they find out what the building is going to cost. And that's what they set up is their campaign goal. Well, you can add a lot more things to your goal than just your building, if you have a building project.

If your building is going to let you do some new programs, you can set up your new programs with the fund from your campaign. You won't be funding them in an ongoing way, but you can certainly buy equipment and put money in there to actually get the new programs going, startup funds. You might include building your scholarship funds. You certainly will include the costs of your capital campaign. And those tend to be depending on the size of your campaign. If you're not a big university or a big institution, I like to start with the 10% of your campaign goal. That's what your campaign is going to cost you, at least 10%, 10% of your campaign goal. There is more to be said about that, but that's a nice round number you can remember.

Can you raise endowment through your campaign? Well, people do have endowment campaigns. I am very leery of them. But, I think every campaign should have some endowment component, a smaller endowment component. So you can combine an endowment component with the building campaign for example.

Marc: So, my story on that is, the University of Maine, Muskie School, years ago. I was taking on a campaign there and I asked the dean, it was an eight million, nine million, ten million dollar campaign, whatever it was, to build new buildings and I said, "Okay. That's great. What's the endowment component to keep the maintenance on these?" And, he just looked at me, "What?” And I had to ask him three times and I started feeling like, maybe I wasn't talking in English.

And I say, "All these new buildings, you have maintenance jobs that are required and there's things break and things need to be taken care of and why not have a fund to throw out some money to help pay for that?" And you would have thought I just unlocked some great esoterical truth because he said, "That's why we have so deferred maintenance across campus, we never do that. We just pay for the building. We don't think of the additional costs of it." I didn't get the job, but at least I dropped some knowledge on him.

Andrea: That's a wonderful point. Let me tell you why, I think, that in something like that you really should include endowments in a campaign. I don't like endowment campaigns by themselves, but, people do them. But I like including an endowment component, because that means that you can count deferred gifts. And when you go and talk to donors at a certain age, you can ask them both for a pledge and to include your organization in their will. Right? And that gives you a wonderful opportunity. Sometimes you can have a campaign goal that isn't a dollar goal for your endowment, but the goal might be, "We're going to get 20 people to put us in their wills." That's an interesting goal for a campaign, in the context of a building campaign, where you have an endowment component.

So there are, again, lots to think about. But, these are in some combination, these are things you can raise money for. I encourage you, as you think about planning your campaign, to think bigger rather than smaller. You will find that it's much easier to pull your goal back than it is to raise it up. And, you certainly don't want to be in a position of having raised all that money, only to find that you haven't raise enough to do the projects well. And that's the problem people run into. If you include as a visible component of your campaign, the cost of fundraising, it will let your Board and you staff decide that they're willing to spend the money they should be spending on their campaign. So, just saying that . . .

Marc: So, you put that right in there, the cost of . . .

Andrea: I put that right in there. I sure do. And, I sure do. And, when Board members see that, then they're willing to hire someone. They're willing to hire a consultant. They're willing to hire additional staff. They're willing to spend money on events. It sets them up to make the right decisions. I think, it's really important to include in your campaign goal the cost of fundraising. And to talk to your Board and your steering committee and your executive committee and director about it, because it says to them well, "Of course. We will invest in this because we're going to make it back through our campaign."

Marc: I think, even season person like me, when I was running a small shop. I've done a lot of campaigns and then I forgot how much a capital campaign stresses the system. And you do need an outside help from volunteers or paid staff because it is, by its definition, overwhelming, it's on top of it. It's not, you already have a full time job. And this is just totally stressing your system.

Andrea: I had a meeting with some Board members and their staff the other day. They were just talking about a capital campaign and they were talking about having the Development Director do it. So I turned to the Development Director and I said, "Sarah, how many hours a week do you sit in your office twiddling your thumbs, wondering what to do?" Everybody kind of look at me.

Marc: I had to think about that, "What did you say?”

Andrea: How many hours does the development director sit there, with time? No development director has time. So, what do people expect? That they're going all of a sudden wave a magic wand and have 48 hours in a day? See, that's craziness. So . . .

Marc: But you need someone to put lightly and unabashedly say, "This is crazy."

Andrea: This is crazy. When I asked that question everyone kind of looks at me and they're all of the sudden they get it, "Oh, of course. This poor woman is working way over time." She never miss a minute to say, "Let me go and get a bite to eat." So, all right.

So, what I've done here in a really quick way is just to give you some of the basic capital campaign concepts. Let me show you what a standard capital campaign structure looks like. And this is about a simple as it gets but pretty much every successful campaign looks like this. And if you keep this picture in your mind, you will find that this give you some clarity.. I'm a big bug on clarity. I like to understand things from a big picture point of view.

Many of you have heard, I'm sure of a quiet phase and a public phase and a kick-off. Most people don't have a clue why we do that or what it's about? This is, let me explain it to you very briefly. In the quiet phase, you have two phases, actually these days I come to think of it as three. These days, I break the planning into two parts. I think about pre-campaign planning and then actually doing your planning your campaign. And then, soliciting the lead gifts and the insider gifts. The largest gifts and the gifts from your Board members and key volunteers, your steering committee. Right? That's that second box.

So, the second box where represents the phrase I said before of raising money for your campaign from the top down and the inside out. Lead gifts are top down, those are the biggest gifts. An insider gift are board members and steering committee members. So, all of that happens during the quiet phase.

Now, why is it a quiet phase? Well, some people think they shouldn't be talking about it to anybody, that's not what it means. Is that you don't want to be announcing your campaign goal. During that whole quiet phase with your campaign, you are using what in the business we call a, "Working Goal." And we're not putting together campaign brochures in which we public that goal. We're not having press releases. And you'd amaze that how many people want to do that in the beginning of the campaign.

Marc: That's frustrating. Yes.

Andrea: Don't do that. So, it's not that you can't be talking to anybody about your campaign. You will be talking to people . . . quiet phase we're using a working goal for your campaign. By the time you get to your campaign kickoff, you will have raised a significant amount of money. Depending on how big an organization you are and how confident you are in the public phase of your campaign. How many donors you have out there in the public phase, you may rise up to [inaudible 00:28:21] the campaign, that has raised up to 85 or 90% before they kicked off, because they had a very small donor base. But if you're a broader organization, you might kick off at 60 or 65%.

What you're going to do before you get to your kick off is that you're going to evaluate. Knowing what's happened with your lead gifts and your insider gifts, you're going to evaluate what you think you really can raise. And you're going to either adjust your goal up or adjust it down. And that will be your publish goal. No more working goal. By the time you have your campaign kickoff, you're going to be adjusting your goal and then announcing it. And all of the public hoo-haw, happens during the public phase of the campaign. A specific goal in mind, that's what you're putting out there.

Now, every once in a while, people undershoot the mark when they announce it. And then, at the very end of the campaign, they raise the goal and they keep right on raising money. And, I've actually had that happen. But, that's why we do this quiet phase, public phase. It is a way of doing a campaign that is safe, so that you can adjust the goal before you go public.

Marc: Well, I think that's one thing that people don't count the cost on is the capital campaigns, they're a huge expense of time, effort and money, but they're also a huge expense of . . . there's a face saving component. You may have big visions about because your world revolves around . . . your universe revolves your profit. And, you can see 21 million is normal.

But your donor base may only see four million and you need to know that and not announce a $21 million goal when you haven't even tested it to see if your donors are that far down the path with you are not. Right?

Andrea: Right. That is exactly right. so these things are set up, they really are set up to try help you plan in a way that you're not going to fail, to help you shoot for the stars. But then if that's not going to happen, if you're not going to get there, you can still go ahead with your campaign, you just may have to push and have to pull back. And sometimes that means rejigging what you're raising the money for.

Marc: Yes.

Andrea: And those are the phases of your campaign. Gift range chart, so Marc Pitman, my friend Marc Pitman has on his website a, what you call it a, "Gift Range chart"?

Marc: "Gift Range calculator" yes.

Andrea: Calculator, not a machine? So...

Marc: I like machine though.

Andrea: And here is what I like about it, and here is what I don't like about it. What I like about it is that, its fantastic to actually be able to plug your numbers in and have them all calculate. Right? It makes it simple and easy. That's fantastic. I really appreciate that. What I don't like about it is that, not all gift range charts are the same formula.

Marc: Right.

Andrea: All of these calculators show the same formula.

Marc: Sure.

Andrea: So, let me give you an example. I once do the campaign for a private school, it was a school for kid with learning disabilities and the entire school had 50 students. Their entire donor base was something like, I do not know, 120? Including rent and everything else. Now some of these people were pretty wealthy but it was a way small donor base. Even when they went out to the community, they couldn't make a list of more than 250 people.

Now that's this little yellow pyramid here, the yellow triangle is represented by that. They needed a very top heavy campaign. For a campaign for two million dollars, their lead gift couldn't be 15%. It needed to be 35 of 40%. They didn't have a big, big, big gift at the top. They weren't going to make it because they had nothing at the bottom.

On the other hand, you have some organizations like libraries where everyone in the community has a library card, right? You have a broad or you know, a community center, everybody in the community belongs to it, they have a big donor base. That might be this red chart. Those are different formulas in the gift chart. So one size does not fit all and its important that you get it right. If you look at the broad base campaign maybe the top gift is 15%. If you're looking at a narrow base, maybe your top goal gift is going to be 25% or higher than that and then the rest of the numbers fall out from there.

Marc: Yes. I'm glad you gave me a heads up, because I totally agree. For me I use the 25%.. Blackbaud uses the 10%. And its just for me an initial planning tool because most of the people coming to my site think to raise $100,000. You get a thousand people to give a hundred dollars. So this is kind of breaking the ice that, we have to ask at different levels. But you're absolutely right. Its just a planning tool. How do you figure that out? Did you do it by looking at your donor base and the conditions?

Andrea: Yes.

Marc: It seems pretty clear. You gave broad base small donor baits, so you know the shape of your pyramid. Are there rules of thumb or is it more nuanced than just having a machine calculate it?

Andrea: Yes. There are some rules of thumb. I mean, I think if you have a broader base organization you can start by looking at it a 15 or 20% campaign, lead gift. If you have a narrow organization you might start with a 25 or 30% lead gift. I actually like the working process. I think that actually working a campaign with an Excel spreadsheet of your own or on a little napkin, gives you a sense of what's out there and when you have a chart then you multiply the number of prospects you need, the number of gifts by three or four, to get the number of prospects. And then you say, "How many prospects do I have and does this work?"

Marc: Yes. Exactly.

Andres: Or do I need higher gifts at the top? So its an iterative process and you use the process to really start to understand what your particular organization campaign should look like.

Marc: Great.

Andrea: Now let me move ahead, I see that time is going on. See, I have a lot to say about this.

Marc: Holy cow. Wow.

Andrea: Let's talk about your Boards, because the biggest problem in question that people ask me is, my Board. I don't have a fundraising Board. Can I do a campaign? Well whether or not you have a fundraising board, if you're going to do a campaign, your board members have to do be excited. They have to be excited about the growth, about the spring board characteristic of your project and they have to be excited and fired up about your campaign. Now, and you have to work to get them there. They're not going to get there by themselves. You need to train them, you need to be sure they understand what its about, you need to be sure they know why its exciting and how its exciting. You need to be sure they understand what their roles are going to be.

People often think Boards are, they walk in the room and they behave properly, but we don't do a good job at training them. So you need to pay attention to that, whether or not your Board is a fundraising board. The Board that has been recruited for its capacity to give large gifts and most social service organizations today, Boards are not recruited largely for that. So there are many organizations who want to do a capital campaign but they don't have a Board that has on it significant wealth.

You can still have a fundraising campaign, a fundraising campaign, a capital campaign even if you're Board members are not all wealthy or they're really aren't very many of them who are wealthy. And even if there aren't many of them who have influence and how can you do that? Well capital campaigns for organizations like that rely extensively on the power of ad hoc committees.

There are many people in the community who have wealth, who have resources, who may think kindly of your organization even though they are not in the least interested in serving on your Board. Like the heads of the largest foundations, the largest donors in your community may well think that your organization is really worth supporting and they may well want to help your organization grow to the next level, and they may be willing to help you in a capital campaign even though they don't want to be on your board which has bake sales.

Marc: Sorry.

Andrea: Right? I mean, doesn't that get it? Right?

Marc: Sorry, I don't mean to mock bake sales with Boards, but exactly.

Andrea: I use bake sales as a generic phrase. Everybody knows what I mean by that right? You may not have bake sales but your Board is involves in the hands-on running of the organization. Its a Board that is not a high level executive Board brought on for their wealth.

Marc: Yes.

Andrea: Right? I promise you, the Metropolitan Opera Board here in New York is a high level Board. They're there for their money and they're not interested in having a more hands-on role. So understand that because a capital campaign is exciting and will help you move forward, help your organization carry out its mission more. You may find that the leaders of your community, the philanthropic leaders of your community are willing to serve on campaign planning committees and campaign steering committees. And that will help move your organization.

Now you do not want to leave your Board out, of course your campaign planning committee and steering committee would have some overlap, some Board members will sit on that. But your lead gifts are likely to come from other people who serve in these committees, who are willing to volunteer rather than from your Board members. So don't be put off if you don't have a fundraising Board. But you need to think carefully about what kinds of volunteer structures we would put in place to make that happen.

Marc: Nice.

Andrea: Okay. Consultants and Feasibility studies. Well again, there is a lot to say about this. Let me show you my friend Bob Pierpoint Do you need a consultant? So, my friend Bob Pierpoints picture up here because I think he is sort of a quintessential old fashion view of a consultant.

I mean, Bob knows more about capital campaigns than I probably have on one of my pinky fingers and he has done umpteen campaigns and he is retired now. But he articulates very well, why its important to have a consultant and why is it important to have not what he calls the feasibility study, but he calls them campaign planning studies.

Now, if you read the literature there's been some stuff in the fundraising literature about are they feasibility studies, are they campaign planning studies. My friend Bob would say is, "When we go and do a study. We don't come back and say yes or no. We come back and say 'Here's the amount of money we see that you can raise. And here's what you need, here's the plan forward.'" So from Bob's perspective, the study shouldn't be a studies that say yay or nay. they should be studies that help you plan the campaign.

In my experience there are times when people hire a consultant way too soon before they're ready.

Marc: Yes.

Andrea: And the consultant goes out and talks to donors, who don't know anything about your project. And what the consultant hears is that, you know what? There are virtually no leadership gifts out there because the organization hasn't done a good job of planning. And then it really is should we or shouldn't we. You can't go ahead with the campaign unless you have some pretty significant potential gifts out there.

Marc: I see that all the time, I see nonprofits hired capital campaign consultants. I've been on the team. And then you go to visit, with what they say, are their circle, their top down and inside out. And their donors haven't heard from them for decades. They had no clue that they're a close family. And so basically what we’re doing is marketing the nonprofit, and trying to catch up on two decades worth of loss donor contact.

Andrea: It's awful. And here's the lesson, I'm going to come back to this at the very end, because I am doing something about this.

Marc: And I am so excited that you are, yes.

Andrea: But here's what I want you to take away from. What I want you to take away now is, you should never hire a consultant to do a campaign planning study, or a feasibility study, until you can say with certainty that every major donor who is engaged in your organization and you hope and expect to get a lead gift from, knows quite well what your project and what your campaign is. And they feel some sense of engagement. And if you haven't gotten to that, you're not ready to hire a consultant. Because you do not want the consultant to come back and say "Oh by the way, you are not ready." Right? Nobody knows you.

Marc: Yes.

Andrea: Nobody knows what you're doing, right? So don't hire a consultant and test your goal until you’re ready. Then when you are ready, you should hire a consultant because this is a big complicated business. And it super helpful to have someone on board and on your side.

Marc: Yes.

Andrea: To help you know what to do. So yes, no not too soon, and yes hire them. All right, Marc how many people have you talked to over the years, who think that the first thing they have to do in a capital campaign is create a campaign brochure?

Marc: Well we have to, because we have to impress our top donors. If we're going to do top gifts first, we can't give them at the back of the envelopes for the calculation. We have to-

Andrea: Right.

Marc: Make it look slick and yes.

Andrea: That's what people think.

Marc: I've lost too much time, it's so expensive, if you have a consultant and you're not listening to their advice. Yes, we know every single nonprofit out there is different, we understand that. But you're all different in the same way.

Andrea: Yes. And believe me...

Marc: And there's a structure to this.

Andrea: Anybody listening to this session you need to know this. You do not prepare a fancy brochure until way later in the process and I will tell you why now. Going back to my chart here, my little campaign planning schematic. You begin the process of coming up with your communications and you do need to start this early with what's called the draft case for support. And that happens during first planning phase. This little blue box on the left hand side in the bottom of your screen.

And why do we do it that way? Why do we do it with the draft? Because it's in the process of sharing that draft with your insiders and with your board member, and with you largest potential campaign donors that you get them engaged.

Marc: Yes.

Andrea: And you're not asking them to word sniff it. What you're asking them for is to help you make sure that the arguments, that the ideas flow and are compelling. So the one way to think about it is this, a draft case for support, is the process of developing core messages that you will use in various forms throughout your campaign to inspire donors to make their gift.

I mean think about the phrase, case for the support, I'm making the case for supporting the organization. I think about it as a logical argument told in a compelling way. And from most organizations I've ever worked with, in fact for every one of them, it takes many drafts to get the case right, to get the argument so it flows. To get the language so it feels like it's the right language. The process of doing that is one of the very best ways you have of engaging people.

Marc: It is, yes.

Andrea: So you don't want to jump right through the process part of that. You want to use it to have people come together to discuss it, to discuss the ideas, to find out if they're compelling, to find out if they work, to find out why they don't.

Marc: So this is where some test has on some fortitude as a nonprofit staff? Because often when you're willing to share something with your donors, you already had a level of ownership and buy-in. I remember doing this with the hospital and the donors were saying, I don't understand why a new bed tower of hospital, patient rooms is necessary, why aren't these other things looked at? And there had been so much forward movement in the new tower for hospital beds, that they weren't listening to the fact their major donors didn't catch, either find the idea compelling enough, or want to give to it. They had already kind of committed.

Andrea: You want to know that pretty upfront, wouldn't you?

Marc: I would think so. But it takes courage to get that kind of honesty.

Andrea: You know, I should really make a slide, and the slide should say "Perfection is not all it's cracked up to be." Because I really think that the best development officers, the best people that work on campaigns are people who will get something down in draft form, who will share it with other people and truly be delighted when they get feedback. Instead of people who think that they had perfected the document, and don't really want feedback at all. So it's the process of developing this that's important, only eventually is it the product. But you need not to worry about that too soon.

Marc: Nice.

Andrea: And what happens I think is that because people are starting to talk to their largest donors, they more and more think they need to be perfect. And of course that's not true at all.

Marc: At all.

Andrea: But that's the subject of another meeting. So capital campaign messages, here the easiest way to talk about them. You see this drill?

Marc: Yes.

Andrea: So how do you describe it, Marc?

Marc: It's yellow, it's got a trigger, looks like it’s got...

Andrea: Right.

Marc: Looks like it’s got our input from multiple different drill bits.

Andrea: Right, right.

Marc: It's got a power cord, maybe a clip for your belt.

Andrea: Yes.

Marc: Is that little thing on top of a clip?

Andrea: Yes. Sort of like six inches wide and six inches long, something like that.

Marc: Yes. It's probably balanced.

Andrea: Right? These are what we call features. Now think for a minute, what do you think the benefits of a drill are? And it's actually just one word.

Marc: Holes.

Andrea: Holes, people don't buy drills because they're yellow. They don't buy drills because they're pretty, they buy drill because they drill holes. Because they want the holes when they get home. And if you think about your capital campaign core messages that way, as focusing on benefits rather than features, as the benefit being first and the features being second, you will be way ahead of the game. So you don't begin your capital campaign case by saying we're building a new building with 80 rooms.

Those are features. You start your campaign case talking about how many more people you are going to be able take care of and what a difference in the community that's going to make. And then you say how you're going to do it. It's a critical difference on how you put your messages forward.

Now I had to go a little further into this campaign material business because people get so boggled by it, so overwhelmed by it. There are a lot of materials in the capital campaign, there really are. But there's no need to look like this woman, you can look like, instead the woman on the right. And...

Marc: But I would like the relaxed man, but...

Andrea: A relaxed man.

Marc: As nice as she looks.

Andrea: She looks sly and relaxed, then why does she look that way? Because she knows she doesn't have to create all those materials at once. In this first planning phase of the campaign, she's working on a draft case for support. She's probably working on a brand and a logo, so things to start to have a look to them. But she doesn't have to do that too soon. Then she's coming up with the list, naming opportunities and proposal letters, and gift acknowledgements and thank you letters, and that's through this lead gift, insider gift section of the campaign. Notice all of this is all in draft form, right? The proposal letters are drafts.

Marc: Wait, the big naming opportunity is just a draft proposal?

Andrea: Yes. Just a draft. Let me be clear, the paper on which it is, it doesn't look fancy.

Marc: Right.

Andrea: Let me be clear with that.

Marc: Yes, there's not a letterhead, it doesn't have a logo.

Andrea: It's not glossy, it's not in a big brochure. It's a simple word document that has the naming opportunities. Now as you developed your type of plan...

Marc: That changed too, right?

Andrea: No, you will have tied down your naming opportunities.

Marc: Will you? Okay.

Andrea: You will tie them down. And the naming opportunities I believe the Board should vote on the naming opportunities, because you don't want to be negotiating naming opportunity amounts with donors. You want to keep yourself from that.

Marc: Okay.

Andrea: The way you present them is a piece of paper. It may have them checked off as people have taken them, but it's not fancy, right? Proposal letters for biggest donors, not fancy. Complete, thorough, well done.

Marc: Yes, exactly, they're well done but it doesn't have to go to the separate printer, a print shop necessarily.

Andrea: It doesn't need a brochure.

Marc: And are you big on themes and logos at this point?

Andrea: I think the campaign should have a unifying theme.

Marc: Yes.

Andrea: Everything starts to look right, and I think that happens in the early parts where you come up with a theme and were look in a logo for the campaign.

Marc: Okay.

Andrea: But you don't need to go super far down that. So you'll decide on what your campaign is going to be called, kind of earlier on. And you'll begin to use that as a look so people know this is campaign related and not annual fund. You don't have to spell out farther than that, until you get ready for your campaign brochure, for your campaign kick-off. And that's when you need your brochure. Why can we do that they? Because by the time you get to your kick-off, you know what publish goal you want for your campaign.

Now for the earlier, for putting proposals together, the strategy that I encourage is that people develop a folder. You can have a folder printed, or you can have a simple plain folder that you can put a label on if you're saving pennies. But I think folders work wonderfully for this early material before your kick-off.

Marc: Yes.

Andrea: Before you have a campaign brochure. So you will want a folder, but you can go to Staples and get very handsome white folders or brightly colored folders. You don't need to spend a fortune on them. By the time you get to your campaign, you do need a campaign brochure. Why do you need a campaign brochure? Because by this time in your campaign, you will have recruited a lot of volunteers to go out and ask for the lower gift amounts from many donors. And they need a confidence and security of having a brochure in their hands.

Now I should say these days, for lead gifts and sometimes more and more people are using iPads and slide decks. That's a different issue but it's interesting to think about. It's one of the things that's changing. So by the time of your campaign kick-off, you need the invitations, you need an updated website, you need social media, you need swag, right? You need t-shirts, and thermometers and all the other goodies.

Marc: It's amazing how it makes people feel so good and real.

Andrea: That's right, it really does. And that's when okay, you know your cruising to the end here. And then finally, in the follow through part of your campaign, you need all the rest of this stuff. Campaign update, the small brochure to mail the people, material folders, actually I have to put that earlier, newsletter, social media, final report, that all comes at the end. So what we've done is take this very complex set of material, and we kind of laid it out over the course of your campaign.

Marc: Now let me ask you about...

Andrea: If you do it like that, it becomes manageable.

Marc: In the updated website, I've seen a lot of clients want to put in the planning, or lead gifts phase, so they could send the lead donors to it.

Andrea: I mean you could do that, I just don't think you want to be publishing your goal.

Marc: Yeah, okay.

Andrea: So if you're going to do that, you better be sure that you put working goal there. And frankly, most of your large donors, I mean you can get them to transact their gift on a website, but that's not the way most of these big gifts are going to come in.

Marc: Right.

Andrea: It's just not. So everything that is going broad base, you want to happen at the campaign kick-off and after, not before.

Marc: Okay.

Andrea: The other piece of this quiet phase and keeping things a little quieter is that you have an opportunity to create insider information. So that people feel as though they're privileged and they're part of your inside core. And they're part of the discussion about what the campaign goal is going to be and whether the messages are the right messages. That process, that imperfection, that draft quality is powerful for engaging people. And that's what you want to be doing. Right up to your campaign kick-off. Then after your kick-off, you're engaging them in a very different way. Does that make sense, Marc?

Marc: It totally does, yes, thank you.

Andrea: Okay, so let's just wrap up here with, are you ready for a campaign? So number one, do you know what you're going to raise money for? Do you know what it's going to cost? Have you added the other pieces of it? How much it's going to cost to raise the money? Do you have a sense of what your working goal is going to be? You need to figure that out really early on and start sharing it with people.

Do you have a compelling case draft? Or maybe not so compelling case draft, but it's a draft. By the time you get to the 30th draft, it'll start to be compelling. So a beginning case draft, somebody needs to get the ideas down on paper. Is your Board on board? Have you been talking to them about a campaign? Do they know what's involved? Do they know if they're not a fundraising Board that they won't be responsible for all of the money for the campaign? Have you been working with preparing them? And have you early on gotten a real donor focused? Do you know 30 of your lead donors? And have you engaged them?

Do you know them the way you would know this woman sitting with her dogs? You go and take the dog on a walk with her, when you were meeting with her. Do you know these people well enough? So you know whether and why they will be excited? And finally, how is your courage? It does takes courage to do this business, it really does. Because it's a big jump. So you need to kind of wind yourself up and have courage. And you know what it is that gets you to be courageous? If you stop thinking about money, and you start thinking about the huge difference, your campaign is going to make in the lives of other people. That's the juice I find for courage. So get your head out of money, and start thinking about impact. And you will find yourself to be more courageous.

Marc, I know our time is at an end. I have a couple of resources I'm happy to share with people.

Marc: Please do. Yes, because I think this is amazing, what you're doing.

Andrea: Gail Perry and I have started a website called Capital Campaign Magic. We will rebrand it soon to be Capital Campaign Masters, but at the moment this is what it is. We blog specifically on capital campaigns every week. And we are building a tremendous treasure trove of very effective and helpful and specific information on campaigns. So go to Capital Campaign Magic and sign up. And you will get announcements about our weekly blogging.

Marc: I can't . . . oh go ahead. I'm sorry. I just love this.

Andrea: What we do on, actually, here is my big book if you're interested in a big book on capital campaigns, you can get it at Amazon. It's fairly expensive I'm afraid, but really, I hear from people that it is their bible and that's fantastic. And finally, Gail and I are doing what we call, Campaign Readiness coaching. And we're working with small groups of organizations through individual coaching and coaching groups that help them go through these steps they need to be ready to hire a consultant. So we work with people from the time they think about starting a capital campaign until the time they're ready for a consultant and they're pretty sure the consultant is going to say "Yes, go ahead." Marc, I'm afraid it's over.

Marc: Wow, you did it. You did much better than I thought, even with our audio issues. So, I've had the privilege of talking with one of Andrea and Gail's CCM clients who had been through their readiness program. They loved it so much, they did it two or three times. And it was a night and day difference between talking to them about it, planning study for a campaign or engaging in a campaign, than it was my typical clients because they already not only knew a list of who their top donors were, they had engaged them. And they had actually gotten some ideas from their top donors about what they were trying to do. They tested out cases.

They were so much more prepared and they could have a much better return on their investment for a hiring the consultants because they had already done the planning and the engaging on their own. They kept the relationships with themselves, that's one of the things that's so hard with what we do, Andrea, is sometimes, we're thrust into a position of creating these relationships for the nonprofit, but we lead. That's the design of the system. What you're doing with CCM is, the campaign readiness coaching is helping people really enhance those relationships long term with their organization which is great.

Andrea: I've never done anything that I have enjoyed more, Marc, than this work, than this campaign readiness work. It's so fulfilling and people are so excited to understand what they have to do to get ready and to have someone who gently disciplines that process for them, its just fun. It really is. Because it works, it really works.

Marc: Well, it is all new to you if you've never done it before, and newsflash, if you've done it three or four times before, choose to believe it's all new because, you just forget, not as a consultant, you don't forget, but you forget as a staff member how stressful campaigns can be. So we do have a couple of questions. One of them was when you were talking about planned gifts, how do you, and this could be outside of the realm of this webinar, but how do you account for planned gifts? Is there a rule of thumb that, when you have current building costs, but you're accepting a deferred gift, what...

Andrea: What do you do about that?

Marc: What do you tell the CFO?

Andrea: It's a complicated subject, but here's the notion. Most of the time you can't count it towards the building costs. That's why I like for you to have an endowment component of your campaign because you can count it towards the endowment component. But some people are looser than I would be about it. Some people would say, any donor who is over 75, you count whatever they've put in their will. The problem is that it's revocable, it's unlikely you're going to get irrevocable planned gifts in your campaign. Its not impossible, but unlikely, most of the planned gifts come in with as bequests.

So my inclination is to roughly count them towards an endowment or as a I said before, I like counting the number of the bequests that have been committed during the campaign, rather than a dollar amount to the campaign. I even like including that in my campaign goal. Everybody gets it. Now, big institutions like colleges and universities have much more complex structures. If that's what you represent, my answer is not appropriate for you.

Marc: Well then you probably have an in-house person that you could ask.

Andrea: That's right. Most people use preponderance of the nonprofit organizations are small organizations without the in-house staff and without the sophistication to be able to do more complicated counting.

Marc: Well and that leads to the next question that came in. It was somebody who had to leave earlier, Gwen from the Cape Gestalt Study Center.

Andrea: I know her.

Marc: I think you're familiar with. She said that, and she knows since she left early, this is at the end so some of this stuff you've probably covered, but if you could recap. Her question is, "What's realistic for my small nonprofit with three full time staff, how do we set goals for building our development program? Our capacity seems limited to annual giving. The suggestions about including costs of fundraising totally helps address that. But how do we scale what you're talking about to a very small organization?"

Andrea: I think it is absolutely scalable to a very small organization. Small organizations have had and can have capital campaigns. What it depends on really is whether the Institute has a group of major donor prospects. I actually have done some studying up there and I believe they do in fact. So, lets say, we're back to what's the shape of the gift chart? What's the shape of the gift chart? If they have a donor who is long time committed to them, who could give them a half a million dollars on a two million dollar campaign for example. They could probably do a campaign. It's utterly scalable.

Marc: People do that. Just a year and a half ago, a small rural community, we got a million dollar lead gift on a tested goal of 2.4 million. People will give . . . there was pent up desire to give and the case was compelling and presented and he was fine with that.

Andrea: Yeah, you can do it. Now, if you're an organization that has no connection with major donors, that has no history with major donors, that has no idea how to do that, then it's going to take you some work to build that. That's a different thing. Then you have to go back a bunch of steps and say, "Okay, let's look and see. Is what we're doing important to people who have significant resources and how do we engage them?" Donors are not just plopped into your donor base. You actually work to identify them and engage them. Its not like rain. They don't just rain down on you.

Marc: Well, that's why they call us because we have the magic list of the donors. The magic Rolodex. So for those people that do have really small dysfunctional, or non-giving Boards, what are the first steps? If they just heard that and they realized, holy cow, our biggest gift is people plussing up there ticket to the art theater shows. That's the biggest we gift. That's what we consider a major gift donor so we don't have one. What would be some good things that they can do, the rest of the week, to help identity some of those people? To build for a campaign?

Andrea: Okay, there are some questions hidden here. Here's the first thing I would do. I would go to and I would look at the blog post that we published today. Of course I don't remember the name of it, which isn't helpful is it? But it is a blog post that is specific about that topic. It says, here's what you do.

Marc: Are you kidding?

Andrea: No. I'm not kidding.

Marc: Okay, I'm looking it up now.

Andrea: Go to Capital Campaign Magic and tell me what we called it. It's something about how to find major donors for your campaign and what to do right now.

Marc: And I'll put this link in the vault too, underneath. If you want to raise big money in a capital campaign, do this now.

Andrea: That's the answer to your question.

Marc: It's like we planned it and we didn't. See, that's how much in-sync you, Gail, and I can be. That's great.

Andrea: That's great. It's a very good, very specific post. And if you follow what they say to do, it works. This stuff works. It's not magic. That's why we're switching from Capital Campaign Magic to Masters.

Marc: Okay, so this is where . . . you just hit something that has been the bane of my experience in capital campaigns is its, you go through this initial joy spurt and then its a hard slog and then there's a little bit more joy spurt and then there's more hard slog. And then it's like, "I can't take it any more. I can't do this any more." You can do it. You can do it. And then it's kick off and you feel happy and then it feels like, nothing is happening. I'd rather watch paint dry on a wall. It's a total emotional roller coaster.

But what makes it successful, is the dogged discipline of having the monthly meetings that make money. The check-in meetings and having the charts that show that these are the donors that we're supposed to talk to and these are the ones that are in the pipeline and these are the ones that are completed and these are the no's that we've gotten. Any tips on encouraging people to actually do the discipline? Because it's not magic. It's not waving a magic wand. It's a lot of hard work.

Andrea: I actually think that that's one of the reasons that people need campaign consultants. Because the campaign consultants disciplines the practice.

Marc: For the CEO too. And it's much easier for a campaign consultant to come in and tell the CEO and the Board, "You guys need to just settle down. Tighten your seat belts."

Andrea: I think that a campaign consultant, when you have a meeting every Tuesday with your campaign consultant at 3:00 and you know the consultant is going to be waiting for you to show up with your lists and your report on what you've done and what you're planning and to go over donor by donor. Guess what? You get ready for that. You do it. It's very hard to do that. You don't have someone showing up at your office saying, "All right guys." Or having a phone call saying, "What have you done? What are you going to do?"

Marc: So on that too Andrea, then I guess it's, don't cancel the meetings because I've had people that feel like nothing has happened when every time you meet, something has moved along.

Andrea: Right. I think that as a consultant, it's been a while since I've been doing active consulting. But I know that when that happened to me and when people started canceling meetings, then I really had to call it. I had to say, "We have a problem. This is not going to happen unless we meet regularly to go over these. And if the format is not working, we're going to come up with another format." And I think a good consultant really goes in with a clear agenda. Because that's half of what they pay you for, is being the slave driver and talking turkey to people.

Marc: That's right and not to be everybody's best friend. It's to get the process going.

Andrea: It took me a long time to get over wanting to be everybody's best friend.

Marc: But I like to be liked.

Andrea: Yeah, we like to be liked. So, but I think it's really, you go in disciplining the process. Marc, one thing I didn't say and I know our time, we've over 15 minutes. We should wrap it up. But one thing I didn't say and it's really important. and that is, if you do a capital campaign right, if you really go through the steps and you really plan it and if you really engage donors and if you really involve volunteers, your annual fund will never look the same.

Your annual fund after the campaign will increase because you will have an instituted affective processes, you will have drawn large donors closer to your institution. You yourself will have gotten more courage in asking people for gifts. Your Board will better at asking for gifts. It is an important process.

Marc: Hearing you say that makes me realize, this is what people hope will come out of a rebranding. They hope that the colors and the themes and everything will created that. But, why I'm not big on rebranding but I am big on capital campaigns, is that, you do the work and you build the systems and the stamina and you develop the relationships to help all the other good things happen afterwards.

Andrea: Exactly.

Marc: Interesting. I'd never thought of that.

Andrea: Branding only works from a fundraising perspective in the context of the other work that you do, to identify donors, to engage them, to get to know them, to get them excited about what's going on. That's really what it's about. Marc, my friend, thank you so much for inviting me to do this.

Marc: Thank you so much for being here, for doing this, and surviving all the different audio things.

Andrea: Sorry the sound was a little wonky. But it is what it is.

Marc: I encourage everybody to go to I've put the blog post in the online page in the vault, The Capital Campaign 101. It's already up there. The recording will be up there. Take Andrea up on emailing her, with a subject line Capital Campaign Coaching.

Andrea: Yeah, absolutely. Sign up for the Capital Campaign Magic blog, get in touch with me by all means if you're interested in the readiness coaching. It's the cats meow. It's fantastic.

Marc: Yeah, and the reason I'm such a big fan of this, I don't get anything for saying this, accept maybe a smile from Andrea, is that I have been through so many capital campaigns where people just aren't ready yet. And this helps people get so much more prepared and stronger, even if you choose not to go under a campaign, you're nonprofit is much better off for it. With that, I'm going to let everybody go.

Can you flip to the last slide for us? Just to remind people that, our coaching call, you'll get an email about that coming up in a couple of weeks, for the live coaching. But remember, it's not just the webinars and it's not just the coaching calls, as great as they are. There's also the online forum, so check that out and Facebook and we'll interact with you there until our next live event. Thanks so much for joining us.

Andrea: Thanks Marc. Bye-bye. Bye everybody.